Name NC State Signature Loss … & Bubba’s Big Deal
It was touted as THE Biggest Game in NC State / Carter-Finley History since the last “biggest game in NC State / Carter-Finley history” whenever that was. Sports loves to deal in Hyperbole. Everything is an “…est,
In its aftermath, Dabo Versus Dave @ The Carter will likely be Dave Doeren’s “Signature Loss” for awhile.
What I saw from my home theater was two very evenly matched teams trading punches for four quarters with Dabo’s Tigers coming out ahead. It’s second consecutive very narrow nail-biter win over Doeran’s Red-clad Wolfpack.
Considering that Dabo’s Tigers are a legitimate Top Tier Juggernaut program of the past three years, that should be cause for pride among NCSU loyalists. I am sure it is for many.
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Is all that separates Clemson and NC State Football a waterslide… a nap room… and a rock?
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Ask a college football fan in Jefferson City, Missouri or Fort Collins, CO or Carlsbad CA for word association for North Carolina State Wolfpack. I’m not sure what you get back.
Current cradle of NFL QBs ??… I doubt it. Maybe something about Jim Valvano but “V” died 25 years ago. That literally is a lifetime for a Millennial.
Rightly or wrongly, I maintain that…
The NC State Wolfpack have a “national reputation” comparable to Texas Tech… Minnesota… Oregon State. Viewed in a hazy not-too-specific way.
Yes… TWO National Championships in Basketball… but neither was in the past quarter century.
After 25 years, sports achievements are placed in a cardboard box labeled Who The Hell was “Choo Choo”? That box is placed on a high shelf and rarely peeked into.
Neither Monte Towe nor Terry Gannon get invited to Memorabilia shows outside of West Raleigh. … Along with that national anonymity comes a blessing.
No one other than inhabitants of Planet Wolfpack and it’s adjoining Planet Hated Rivals knows that… Every Wolfpack Loss in FB or MBB in anything remotely labeled “a Big Game” is GUARANTEED to have in common that…
…The Refs Stole It From Us.
Whether under orders from Johnny Swofford… or ESPN… or The NCAA… or simply The Sports Gods. It doesn’t matter who The Head Referee is, be it Jim Knight or Ron Cherry (i.e. “the black one”) or Karl Hess (i.e. the crazy SOB)… or whoever yesterday’s Ref was. The Legacy of Refs Kneecapping The Wolfpack probably goes back to Red Peril days.
It doesn’t matter that no one in Jefferson City, Fort Collins, or Carlsbad know that the Refs ALWAYS screw NC State. Wolfpack fans and every hated rival fan knows it.
The Refs Always Screw The Wolfpack Conspiracy is either (1) True – (2) Not True – (3) Might Be True Sometimes.
My theory on Conspiracy Theories… 50% of’em are bogus… but which 50%?
This time the Irateness Level of Irate Wolfpack fans reached spit at and throw trash at the refs as they left the field. Oh My! Then noted repeatedly in post-game remarks by both NCSU players and Head Coach.
There were some marginal calls / no calls. In the closing minutes of close Big Games EVERY call / no call is “marginal”.
The litmus test I use whenever any fan base complains that it was “done wrong” is…
If the circumstances were totally reversed, how would you react?
I use this for UNCers re: TGU. If Duke had been under investigation for The Greatest Eligibility Scam in NCAA History and been let off scot-free how would you (UNCers) feel?
Can we say that UNC was “Bowe Bergdahled””? Or was Bowe Bergdahl “UNCCHed”.
Somewhat related… was Chubb’s repeated de-toweling of the Clemson QB simply clever gamesmanship or poor sportsmanship? I look forward to The Official Bob Kennel Answer to that one.
Every Big Game in which NCState is “screwed by the refs” gets its own Title for ease of identification. There was TA’s Knee… Gio’s Punt Return… Dudley VS Clyde The Glide… and others I don’t recall. I have a LIfe.
Speaking of Gio’s Punt Return… did you know that Mr Kennel had Abraham Zapruder film that play. His Zapruder Film clearly shows 26 obvious “blocks in the back” on that one punt return. I’ve seen the film and only counted five but BK’s swears there were 26.
Will history record yesterday as LapTop-gate? I hope not because I hate “–gates”. Soooo trite.
I’ve read three stories about the mysterious sideline laptop. After the second one I felt like I was watching a Hillary Clinton “Why I Lost” interview with Rachel Maddow. …. Aaaaiiiieeeeee!
I wanted to scream at my IMac …
Coach Doeren STOP… you are better than this! Complain about ½ time pass-outs or whatever. … STOP with the laptop thingy.
There are various mathematical permutations still available but Pack dawbers are down heading to wherever Chestnut Hill is. Then those very pesky Deacons with their own “Coach Dave”. Three weeks between a VERY fine season and simply “we were bowl-eligible and UNCheats wasn’t”.
I’m bored with this. Lets talk about…
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Bubba’s Big Bucks Deal…
I make no secret that UNC AD Bubba Cunningham is a friend of mine. So is Washington University Provost Holden Thorp. So is Norwood Teague… I probably have a few more if I thought long enough.
Last week the UNC BOG approved a “special compensation plan” for Bubba Cunningham that assures him $200,000/year for the next five years in addition to his $800,000-ish salary.
The N&O’s Jane Stancil posted the story to the N&O website literally from the UNC BOG boardroom at 3:00 PM Friday. By 3:25 I had heard from two Triangle-area mover-shakers via e-mails AND a phone call from a member of The UNC BOG.
What’s BobLee gonna think? was the question of the hour. … Under such enormous pressure… I thought about it.
I bet I know some stuff you don’t know. I usually do…
- The “special deal” Bubba got is not all that special. The UNC BOG did a similar deal several years ago for NCSU Chancellor Randy Woodson when Chancy Randy was being wooed by, I think, Univ of Florida…. Univ of Somewhere. It convinced Randy to stay put
- The BOG then did similar deals for UNCCH’s Chancellor “Chihuahua” Folt for God-knows why… several other UNC chancs… and for “That Bush Woman” Margaret Spellings.
Giving “such a deal” to an AD IS precedent-setting and probably a mistake the BOG will regret. It will not be the BOG’s first mistake nor the first one it will likely regret. It opens up “doing the deal” to assorted academic/athletic senior admins.
In the past 12-15 months, Bubba has turned down at least TWO AD gigs that both offered TWICE his UNC salary. Those two offers were Univ Florida and Univ Tennessee.
He and I have NOT discussed his reasons but, knowing him, I speculate it was a sense of obligation to see TGU through to its conclusion. It has now concluded.
Bubba came to UNC BECAUSE of TGU. He inherited the whole ooey-gooey pile of crap from “Call me Dickie” Baddour… I nicknamed him “Bubba The Real AD” as UNC had not really had “a real AD” for quite some time… like 15+ years.
I also speculate that Bubba is Candidate Numero Uno to replace his mentor Jack Swarbrick as AD at Notre Dame. Swarbrick is slated to retire within the next 12 months.
There are currently 10+ Notre Dame-bred ADs in major college athletics. But Bubba Cunningham is the only one I know personally so he is likely ND’s first choice. That gig would also be in the $1.5M pay range… but has a very short golf season.
Bubba Cunningham is on every AD short-list. Except probably NCSU’s. to replace Frau Yow. This “not-so-special deal” is intended to assuage any thoughts of him leaving UNCCH.
Will it? I don’t have that answer
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Cdog and Dudley got it covered! How’s Bo nowdays?
Long, but informative.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-01/do-college-football-refs-have-it-in-for-your-team
The days of “conference officials” should have ended decades ago… in both FB and BB. IMO… there should be central Official Office supplying crews to Power-5 schools. Furthermore I think no “crew” should work more than two games/season of one school. One/season even better. I’m sure there is a scheduling app that could insure that.
Really interesting reading, Cowdog. You guys are going to turn me into a conspiracy theorist yet!
Never forget Dudley… ONLY 50% are bogus so ya never know…
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The concept of a National Ref Assignment Office makes total sense… or at least a Power-5 Ref Service. Rule interpretation should be universal just like balls/strike in MLB.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist. Having said that, I think, in all sports, there is a tendency on some game officials’ part to have an expectation as to which is the better team, and give them a little bit more of the benefit of the doubt. The Jacoby Meyers catch reversal was a mistake, in that the officials reversed the ruling of catch, without irrefutable evidence to overturn the call. The pass interference calls were out of balance as well. Regarding those situations, in my opinion, the officials gave the benefit of the doubt to the national champions — that’s… Read more »
OK… lets assume fully functioning level-headed adults review the film and agree “This just isn’t right. Something fishy is going on…” and demand a hearing with ACC Commish / Board to file a grievance, protest whatever. Surely there is some recourse against full-scale “cheating thru dishonest officials”. There is a lot of $$$ at stake as well as program integrity et al.
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I don’t know what that legal recourse is but surely Frau / Randy has access to ACC Rules / Regs.
Don’t misunderstand, BL — I don’t think there is a conspiracy. What I described is just a fact of life in sports — consistent winners get the calls. Coach K gets the calls, MJ got the calls, Greg Maddox always got that pitch that was just outside. Although I don’t agree with it, it is what it is. It is incumbent on an “up and comer” (i.e., State, in this instance) to win despite that, and then maybe they get the calls.
I think there is validity to that. More so perhaps in BB where the Coach to Ref relationship is much more up-close and personal. I don’t know that a Nick Saban or Urban Meyer can intimidate a FB referee like a K or Dean or Popovich could a BB ref. . Does that principle also exist in courtrooms where a high profile “celebrity” attorney can intimidate a judge? . A lot of the more memorable “State gets screwed” incidents in FB seem to take place versus UNC. Not sure the theory holds up in that comparison. UNC / NCSU FB… Read more »
Ok, let’s be honest, we all know that we State fans have chips on our shoulders — it is in our DNA. I think we often feel we “got screwed.” The reason the most memorable ones are games with Carolina is because they are games with Carolina! As I said, I’m not a conspiracy theorist. Of course, my good buddy Tom contended for years that the Tarheels were “cheating bastards,” and I accused him of being a paranoid conspiracy theorist. Look who turned out to be right on that one :-).
Alas… Reality likely isn’t going to change too many adversarial relationships. Allowing for a % that “have seen the light”, the majority of UNCers will go right back to the comfort of artificial piety. The TGU Ruling absurdity coupled with this disaster of a FB season has muted much of the usual bombast… but expect it to resume w/ BB.
I do not believe there is a stated policy of “screw” State or anyone else within the offices of the ACC or even the BOG. However, I do believe decisions can be influenced by unwritten, unstated preferences within any organization and especially within an organization influenced by politics, money, greed and “fat cat “bragging rights. ( which is most, including churches ) If you as an employee or contract worker are in a position to make a decision that affects the outcome of an event and you are aware of the boss’s preference, I believe you might be influenced to… Read more »
Very possible… Depending upon one’s level (and length) of involvement in sports, politics, academia, media et al, one does come to realize how such organizations can easily be corrupted. I like “situational ethics” as a convenient umbrella to cover such corruptness and to explain how otherwise “honorable” people can become complicit in that corruptness. . The ongoing “Donna Braziel Scandal” (which liberals reading this have yet to hear anything about, and may never…) being an excellent example. . Still, with sports’ officials being complicit in directing the outcome of games, there has to be THE moment in which a flag… Read more »
I refereed for a little bit while in college, basketball and soccer. It was quite humbling. I always saw middle aged men keep the game going, and figured it was a fairly easy way to make some pocket change, and a fun way to stay in sports after my lack of skills told me to hang up the cleats or shoes. I learned a quick lesson on respect for the zebras. My eyes and mind do not work fast enough to be a ref. . The difference in calling a charge or a foul is literally a tenth of a… Read more »
Despite all that… In my next life I still want to be an MLB Umpire.
Hate, anger, misery, distrust, and conspiracy theories. In other words everything is perfectly normal.
Doug,
After reading the various headlines this morning from REAL and FAKE NEWS sites….you pretty much summed up. Sort of funny, ironic and a great perspective….in a cynical, but realistic way….
BUT, you were probably talking about BL’s column and NOT why Hillary lost, who will win the VA and NJ gov races today, who shot JFK, whether Trump overfed the Koi, Russian collusion, Harvey and Kevin’s behavior, etc……the list could go on…..but you pretty much nailed our current social media driven world….
Thanks….I needed that….
The question I keep asking but never find a satisfactory answer to is why do “we” keep doing this to ourselves?
Interesting game…The stadium was sold out. NCSU students streamed in when the opened the gate. As far as REAL attendance, it was probably 98%. With Black Friday a comin’, SOME Wuffies converted their $60 or so piece of cardboard into $250 golden fleece. THAT probably explained the 10% or so that was of the ORANGE set. BUT, equally interesting….CF rocked most of the game….save the dismal 3rd Q. There were many times when I checked the exits. Miracles of all Miracles….the Pass Outs came back. With less than a minute to go, CF was at 95% or so. There was… Read more »
Thats The Spirit! Certainly a do-able scenario. . DD made a comment in his Sunday presser about C-F being THE place for Football in NC. No question about that these days. He also said he knew nothing about the “issue” with the officials leaving the field. Not sure I can buy that he knew nothing about it but why not? If Roy can “know nothing” then surely DD can too. . If you believe in a Swoff Conspiracy w/ Refs have you figured how he keeps it all on The QT for lo these many years involving many game officials.… Read more »
I assume that you have been to the “War Room” in the G’boro ACC HQ. It is “Apple X Phone Level”. In all clear conscious, if the Replay Refs are sitting there and making calls and Swoff is sort of HOVERING (as he said he did in the article about the complex), do YOU think that THEY don’t know WHO is supposed to get the benefits of a questionable call? Does HE tell them what to say? Of COURSE not…. But, when you blatantly change protocols….like whistling a play dead so you can go BACK, ONE does have to wonder.… Read more »
But but but … where is “the grassy knoll” in Carter-Finley. There HAS to be “a grassy knoll”. An “18 minute pause” in the game tape would be helpful too. Is there one of those? … Is “Section 51” the ACC HQ or The Murphy Center? … Obviously there were plenty of “a Lady in Red”.
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Did BK hire Abraham Zapruder again? He normally only hires “Abe” for State – Carolina games, but maybe…
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Does anyone know where “THE LAPTOP” is? Pry off the CAPSLOCK key from “THE LAPTOP” and scrawled inside the key will be One Word…
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… ROSEBUD
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I look at it this way. Albert would understand, and Don Deckinger would testify.
Officials and their blown calls, in key situations, can and will, turn the tide that even the best will not overcome. It happens.
It’s a shame that it happened two weeks in a row to my Pack. Timing is everything.
Albert ??? As for Denkinger… his was simply a blown call. Only the most insane Cardinals fan thought he was “on the take” or part of a conspiracy to throw the game to KC. Umps and refs DO miss calls via human error although Instant Replay is proving their accuracy % is quite high. . I would LOVE for someone to prove Swofford is indeed “out to get State” and has been for 20 years. That would involve several 100s FB and BB officials over those 20 years but “maybe”. . I guess you either figure (1) there IS a… Read more »
My bad, Prince Albert was a player, no?
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Where the heck did I lead into a conspiracy?
All I said was officials blow calls.
Sometimes at the worst moments.
Good teams may not overcome them.
You need to go to concession????
I mean, confession.
Yes, Albert was quite an athlete in HS and at UNC. I’m sure he was on both sides of questionable calls… as so with BK.
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So now you’re concerned with my spiritual well-being? I feel better already.
Yes. Yes I am. Concerned with all of our spiritual well being.
I thought Prince Albert was caught smoking weed and got put in the can.
Bless his heart, PA has never figured out why I call me “Prince Albert”.
As usual…..loved the comments and your response.
This topic was pretty much guaranteed to stir emotions. 🙂
You and Gsbo N&R sportswriter Ed Hardin were of like-minds to Saturday’s results in C-F and post-game reactions. Who reads who?
I don’t know Ed Hardin but understand he is sort of “The Caulton Tudor” of The News & Record. I don’t read his columns and never assume who/does not read mine. I hear about my idioms and nicknames being used on area talk shows and other websites without credit, but such is the life of “a wise guy with a website”. 🙂 . The ONLY area sports show/column I follow is Steve Logan’s Sunday Analysis of Area teams’ games. Other than that I only read The Athletic subscription-only national sports website. Everything else seems targeted at overly caffeinated board monkeys.… Read more »
BL: you do realize, don’t you, that the LOGIC in your responses to these reader comments is very frustrating to those for whom “logic” is always the first casualty in water cooler Monday Morning QB debates?
May that forever be the case, John. Thank you!
I thought State played very well. Nothing to be ashamed of in a tough loss to a very good Clemson team. As has been noted in previous posts, NCSU & UNC have had good seasons, but Clemson has a good program. At this point, I can’t even watch an NCSU game without spending the entire game wondering which call will be the “we got screwed” call, should the Pack lose. It is as predictable as the sun rising in the east. I don’t think there are enough referees in the entire NCAA to cause a UNC win at Carter-Finley this… Read more »
The only conceivable scenario I see for a UNC win in C-F would be a TOTAL collapse of NCSU over the next three weeks. If this “the refs will always screw us” stuff infects their collective brain, “they” could implode. I think DD is a better coach than to let that happen unless he and his staff buy into the “We always get screwed” stuff too. BC and WFU are both capable of beating NCSU on a given day. UNC is not. … IMO.
Been watching local (North Carolina teams) sports for a long time. I always trust ACC field/court officials to know who is supposed to win. I only saw snippets of the game so I didn’t see any controversial calls, but history tells me there probably were some interesting situations. That offside call on the onside kick for the Tarheels 2 years ago in the ACC title game is one such example.
Believing that Big Game results are “scripted” is common among rank&file fans everywhere. Has been for many years. Whether the puppet-masters are Vegas bookies or biased conference/NCAA officials… or ESPN. It is more comforting than to believe “we just got beat by a better team today”. How the puppet-masters insure the forever silence of dozens of zebras is never explained. . If I was Czar of Big Time College FB I would not allow ANY Conference Commish or Director of Officials to have any background ties to a “member institution” whatsoever. That said, I am sure Jim Delany is always… Read more »
I get it. You’re an orange tinted sunglass wearing Clemsophile. 🙂
I’ve never been called that before. Not sure anyone else has either. How did I qualify? I assume it is meant as an insult?
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IMO… the only way Clemson makes the FinalFour is for Miami to beat ND; then Clemson beats Miami in Swoff Bowl. Assuming Clemson wins out and is 11-1 going into Swoff Bowl. Does that still qualify me to be whatever that was you called me?
Didn’t intend to insult. Was taking on a board monkey persona. I think the ACC wants/needs a team in the final 4 and if ND beats Miami, Clemson stands as the likely entrant should they win out. If Miami has one loss and is ACC champ, I don’t see them in the playoff. TV and, by proxy, the selection committee really want the domers. If the SEC were to get 2 entries and then Notre Dame, there is one slot left for the other 4 conferences. I hope it happens. Then we’ll see how they like the 4 team set… Read more »
I think the ACC’s best scenario to a FF berth is Miami beating ND then a 11-1 Clemson beating an 11-1 Miami in the Swoff Bowl. If ND beats Miami and wins out… ND is “in” and its Clemson vs Okla for #4. Okla has two Sig Ws tOSU and OklsSt… better than Clem … UNLESS Auburn beats UGA or Alab, then Clem W over Auburn becomes a BFD. A lot of “what ifs” and “maybes” in there. . Surely ACC “wants” a FF team. Every Power-5 does but with five Power-5s and Four spots one is always left out.… Read more »
I’ve only followed Heel sports from a distance since TGU eruption, so I am not up to speed on the Athletic Dept so much, but I am curious, in general, what defines a great AD these days? I would guess keeping a department financial strong is probably 75%, with the other 25% some combination of keeping the boss and academics happy, keeping coaches who stay out of trouble, and bonus points for banners??? . If he sticks around, I will be interesting to see how he handles Roy’s inevitable sunset ride, and if he can find the secret sauce that… Read more »
Most hard-core fans are convinced they would be most excellent ADs at their alma mater “because”. Bubba’s success at keeping UNC Athletics very healthy financially as well as on-field throughout the 20+ sports during the TGU turmoil is, IMO, largely due to his being detached emotionally from the TGU turmoil… and the whole Carolina Way mindset. His daily approach has been as a CEO of a somewhat complicated business. . Looking back over his 6-7 years at UNC, would he have preferred to have chosen a less complicated circumstance (he was getting numerous offers when he chose UNC). I can’t… Read more »
I haven’t posted in awhile but this less-than BL’s best caught my attention. Your comments have usually been relatively even handed but this one missed that standard. Maybe it was just a reminder that you are still a hole at heart!
GrahamPacker
That assumption is as knee-jerk predictable as “the refs are always going to screw us”.
Board of Governors approve million dollar bonus for Bubba. In realated (albeit older) news: “The Texas House of Representatives unanimously passed [on April 1,1971] a resolution honoring Albert DeSalvo, noting that he had been “officially recognized by the state of Massachusetts for his noted activities and unconventional techniques involving population control and applied psychology.” The resolution further noted that “this compassionate gentleman’s dedication and devotion to his work has enabled the weak and lonely, throughout the nation, to achieve and maintain a few degrees of concern for their future.” “DeSalvo was more widely known as the “Boston Strangler.” He had… Read more »
Voting this “deal” for Bubba Cunningham doesn’t quite rise to that level of absurdity IMO. That the UNC BOG essentially remained “mute” thru the eight years of The UNC Scandal including following UNCCH being “Bergdahled” is, IMO, much more of a heinous act of “no action”.
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No one should EVER forget that former UNC System Prez Tom Ross wanted to name Dickie Baddour as UNC System Athletics Director. Ross, a hard-line UNCCHer, thought Baddour was an outstanding AD.
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I appreciate that Bubba Cunningham is viewed as an enemy combatant by non-UNCers.
I thought the Pack played a helluva game yesterday. From the upper deck, it’s really hard to tell whether those PI calls àgainst our guys were accurate. Seems like when I’m home watching on the HD TV it’s hard to tell also. I’m glad the defensive backs were playing aggressively. Hey, the Pack just cracked the top 20 for the first time since Chuck the chest was here. The Tiggers have been perennial top 5 for a few in a row and whupped the mighty Saban’s. We ain’t a top 15 team. I was pretty frustrated leaving the game but… Read more »
Board monkeys is board monkeys is…! A “rabid dog” is just a “rabid dog” no one asks what specific breed he is.
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Hopefully DD can keep “dawbers up” the next three weeks. … and then he says good-by to a lot of veteran seniors. Can he reload…?
I knew Holden Thorp as an undergrad. I’ll leave it at that.
As far as “the game”, State played well and would have been a deserving winner if the gods had smiled upon them, but becoming a winning program is a process. “State 2017” is “Carolina 2015” and that is a long way from where
Clemson is presently. For State and Carolina stars may align from time to time, but not year to year. That is the difference between a program and the occasional good team.
I’ve only known Holden as a Chanc and a Provost.
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Clemson has been a bona fide “Football School” going back to Frank Howard in the 50s at least. 80,000 fans in Orange every game year after year takes a lot of years to develop.
Tough game for sure. Still like our spunk. No other comment until I carefully review my game recording ????
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Better not allow a VERY good season get away from you.
Exactly. DD’s real coaching challenge begins now. He has to rally these fellows to win at Chestnut Hill (graveyard of several past Wolfpack seasons), get by the Deacs in W-S(never easy for State), and beat the bitter rival (in what is basically their bowl game).
I cannot imagine ANY scenario where UNCCH wins at C-F in three weeks. No word from Frau about “a Brass Ring Deal” for DD ???
One of the trickiest jobs for any HBC is to not allow a past loss defeat you AGAIN. Then there’s the flipside of coaching after a huge win. Even trickier with 18-21 y/o kids.
The Sage of Triangle-area FB – Steve Logan – has said how NCSU rebounds against BC is the biggest test of Doeren’s coaching career. That brass ring contract could be at stake.