One Word – Two Fan Bases – 30 Years

Charles Shackleford
BobLee
January27/ 2017

…. Because Legends, like Dragons, Will Live Forever

Puff The Magic Dragon lamented – “Dragons live forever, but not so little boys….”. Replace Dragon with “Legend” and the same will apply to former NC State Basketballer – Charles “Mr. Amphibious” Shackleford.

Charles Shackleford, age 50, was found dead on Friday AM in his hometown of Kinston.  Cause of Death – Cirrhosis. Shackleford had a long history of involvement with drugs and related nefarious activities.

It could be argued that no single individual and certainly no single word – “Amphibious” – is so forever cemented into Tobacco Road sports rivalry “lore” than is Charles Shackleford and the word “Amphibious”.

An innocent malapropism that Charles Shackleford may, or may not, have uttered in 1987 when describing his ability to shoot with either hand – i.e. “ambidextrous”.

Whether “Shack” said it or whether his coach Jim Valvano “said he said it” has long been debated. For sure malaproping (?) the words “amphibious” and “ambidextrous” did NOT originate in 1987. I credit Wake Forest’s legendary “Peahead” Walker with coming up with the line. I credit “Peahead” with 95% of all such one-liners.

There are over a dozen permutations of whether “Shack said it” or not and each version is backed by scores of “I was there when….” eye witnesses. Jim ValvanoIrrelevant. For certain Jimmy V “said he said it” as part of “V’s” standard rubber chicken stump speech to Wolfpackers and other sports banquet audiences.

The companion “Shack story” involved a long plane ride home from a holiday tournament in Hawaii and Shack falling asleep with his head propped on his wrist… and subsequently spraining his wrist when startled awake.

That “V” promoted Shack’s “not all that smart-ness” ended up being a key element in what brought The Valvano Era to such an inglorious conclusion.

A bit more historical background…. Charles Shackleford played high school basketball in Kinston for “my coach” – the legendary Paul Jones. At one time “Coach Jones” was the winningest BB coach in NC High School history. Coach Jones had 25 years of experience prior to coaching “Shack” including two state championships and several runner-ups. Why Paul Jones never moved up to coaching college BB is linked in part to the recruiting of Charles Shackleford in 1985.

At 6’10” and “amphibious”, Shack was highly recruited. It is not intended as any indictment of Jimmy V that he (“V”) somehow got Shack admitted to NC State. On numerous occasions over the years, “Coach” would laughingly recall that Charles Shackleford “getting admitted to any college” told him all he needed to know about the hypocrisy of college sports. He would then recount assorted “Shack said …. Shack did ….” stories.Chris Washburn

At NC State, “Shack” would be forever linked with Chris Washburn. Or as rival fans would call him “475” for his (Washburn) fabled low SAT score.  Washburn apologists have longed argued that UNC’s Kevin Madden’s SAT score was equally “remarkably low”. … and that Dean Smith had aggressively recruited Washburn.

However unremarkable “475” and “Amphibious” may have been academically, their combined presence on Valvano’s roster became very very heavy straws that broke the camel’s back of Jimmy V….

“consistently recruiting young men not academically suitable for North Carolina State University”.

THAT malfeasance, and not “a pair of sneakers” and “a few tickets”, is why Jim Valvano was ultimately terminated as BBHC and Athletics Director at NC State.

Before Washburn & Shack there had been Lo & Co – Lorenzo Charles and Cozell McQueen. I can never remember if it was Lo or Co that “supposedly” said – “I came to NC State because, growing up in South Carolina, I always wanted to go to school in the North”. OUCH. That line also became a staple in “V’s” quiver of banquet zingers. He “had a million of’em”.

While V’s audiences roared with laughter at his player-effacing anecdotes, they began to wear on the more image-conscious members of the NC State University community.

Why was Jim Valvano promoting his own players’ so dumb that …. Whether the anecdotes were real or exaggerated. We’ll never know ….

If V’s own words about his own players had been tempered, or not recounted at all, might he have survived His Inquisition?

In V’s own words – They gave me a lifetime contract, then told me I was dead. Did V’s own words about his players actually come back to do him in?

During The Inquisition…. Former head of the NC physical education department, Richard Lauffer, described him (Shackleford) as a poor student, without “any interest in trying to get an education” and who “should never have been in school.

It must be noted that shortly after the Washburn / Shack Era at NCSU, the Grand AfAm Eligibility Scam @ UNCCH began, so we are told, in the early 1990s. Unlike V, Dean Smith was forever touting his players’ academic proficiencies and successes. To whatever degree such touts were justified, it was certainly what Franklin Street Faithful LOVED to hear…. as they repeated “amphibious… amphibious… amphibious” to their NCSU aquainti over a bazillion times over 30 years.

That one word, attributed to Charles Shackleford, came to symbolize the supposed “lack of integrity” of NC State athletics while simultaneously elevating UNCCH athletics.

Arguably, no single word, has spontaneously generated more gastric reflux among NC State alumni and fans over the past 30 years than “amphibious”.

“Shack” left NCSU in 1988 under a cloud of suspicion over possible involvement in point shaving. He had a total of six years in the NBA and a dozen more years with various European teams. Rebounding proficiency was always his forte.

At some point “Shack” got involved with drugs and all its nefariousness. Over the past 20 years he was “picked up” on various occasions for drug-related activities. Every new incident, of course, meant a renewal of “AMPHIBIOUS” taunts aimed at NCSU fans.

I never met him. Other than Coach Jones’ comments I only know “The Charles Shackleford of Legend” that most all of you know. How much of “it” an individual believes is likely tied to one’s sports allegiance.

Did he “love his momma”? … Did he spend time with kids to warn them not to follow his Life track? …Did he “love the Baby Jesus”? …Is this world a better place because Charles Shackleford walked upon for 50 years? …. I am not qualified to even suggest an answer to any of those questions. I DO know that:

The Legend of Mr Amphibious did NOT die early Friday morning in Kinston because….

Legends, like Dragons, Live Forever!

###

Uh Oh… AgentPierce wants to be “Trump’s Tweetist” …. CLICK

BobLee
  • OldWuf Vet Reply
    3 months ago

    On the Money BL. I was near the end of Vet school when Washburn and Shack came through. The bloom of ’83 had faded and V appeared to be desperately grasping for the recruit that would get him back. At the time I remember being pretty disgusted at the academic abilities of the guys he was bringing in. I remember how other alumni/students used, “Well, DES was recruiting him just as hard” as an excuse. JV and the ’83 team memories will always be near and dear; but I never liked what was going on in the late ’80’s. The NCAA stuff was excessive, but something had to change.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I’ve always thought V just needed a wise hand on his shoulder to keep him on the reasonably straight path. Poulton was NOT the guy.

      • OldWuf Vet Reply
        3 months ago

        Poulton, Monteith. We definitely had a vacuum of leadership back then. JV was normally the strongest personality in any room; certainly was on campus

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          No question about that. But JV had an achilles heel. He got drunk on his own fame & success losing track of what earned him that. There was no one to jerk a knot in him. Everyone can benefit from “that guy”.

  • dalemanning Reply
    3 months ago

    I think the amphibious faux pas by Charles Shackleford was actually spoken during a 60 Minute interview with Morley Shafer, several days after “Shack” had made a pivotal shot ina win over UNC. This was during the late stages of the Coach V era when some of the questionable actions of team members were being disclosed. The interview was held in a small room somewhere on campus and included Chris Corcianni and one other player whose name I cannot recall. What I do recall is when the infamous line was made, Corcianni literally fell off the bench/couch on which he sat. No sir, Bob. This actually happened.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      NOTE: Reader “dale” filed this comment in the “ECU” column. I am reposting it here because here is where it belongs…
      .
      First question Dale… Why would Morley Safer / 60 Minutes ever be interviewing Charles Shackleford? I am fine with “it actually happened” and whether or not “Shack” knew he was malapropizing (?) when he said it, and fully intended it as “a joke”. The story IMO is that it became such a benchmark in the State v UNC hate-athon for 30 years and counting. … how often “rival fans” have thrown it in the faces of State fans … how “fingernails on a blackboard” the word has become, understandably, to so many State fans…

    • Old MacDonald Reply
      3 months ago

      So somewhere there is tape of a “60 Minutes” interview where Shack “says it” and Corch “literally fell off a bench laughing”? Really?! Why has nobody ever seen this?

      • BobLee Reply
        3 months ago

        The mind does reel at the scenario, huh?

        • stickwolf Reply
          3 months ago

          Just saw this and nice column as always BLS… It was not the 60 minutes piece that this was said. Shack made some stupid comment about taking something easy to stay eligible and Corch just laughed like Can’t believe he just said that. Now remember this was a time we were told “everybody doesn’t do it” (Boy times have changed huh?) V actually pinpoints the time and place as post game Clemson 1988 ACC tourney. Now Coach V did have a comedy act and I’m sure A LOT was just comedy relief but in this instance he gave it a time and place. Not sure if this has been addressed as I didn’t read All the comments but V made it pretty plain in his book, that it happened and WHEN it happened. Thanks again and RIP Shack

          • BobLee
            3 months ago

            There are numerous first-person “i was there” narratives re: V – Shack – Amphib – et al. I tend to believe all of’em. What the hell. 🙂

    • NCSU68Grad Reply
      3 months ago

      May I suggest that you email Jeff Gravely of WRAL. Despite working for Jimmy G….he is really trustworthy and truthful. He take on it is different and he will be more, I think, to enlighten you on HIS recollection of it. I doubt that he was sitting in on a Morley Shafer Interview. BUT, you never know with Fake News today.
      My $$’s is on Gravely’s take on it….and I will support him, locked arm in arm with Rev BB and BK….if necessary.
      Run with that one, BL….

      • BobLee Reply
        3 months ago

        I don’t care that much. Let everyone believe what they want to. Its 2017 – The Age of Fast Food Facts.

  • 58WolfKennel Reply
    3 months ago

    (NOTE: BK had an issue posting this himself, so I am re-posting for him. Every word is Bre’r Kennel’s. I promise. – BL)
    .
    “BobLee, First and foremost I am sorry to hear of Shackleford’s passing far too early, regardless of the causes. As a New Bern guy, I really do understand Kinston and its appropriate prides, joys, and sorrows. Your extended article, however, does call for a few more lengthy comments.
    .
    -I never personally met Shack and don’t believe he ever attended any of Gottfried’s basketball reunion dinners. However I have met most of NC State’s basketball players over the years I was traveling the globe as well as all of the coaches. You should have an intentionally unpublished book I wrote 4 years ago called “A Brief Window Into The Life And Legend Of Jim Valvano”. Following are some simple comments regarding your interesting column.
    – After the ’83 Miracle Championship run, Valvano ran a continuing search for the elusive great center for another run. He tried transfers like Tevin Binn and recruits like Shackleford and Washburn.
    – Recognizing they did not have the full academic qualifications for NC State, Valvano signed specific agreements with Chancellor Poulton that he would work with them on their academics, and Valvano was serious about academics.
    – When Valvano became AD as well as Coach, he became too thin to handle everything first hand, and there were some dropped academic balls in basketball.
    – In the late 1980’s during the gathering “scandal” storm, I was intimately involved with the Chancellor, Trustees, Board of Governors, and N&O on a requested basis as President of the Parents’ Association and incoming President of the Alumni Association (the book documents dozens of personal letters to that effect)
    – When I was incoming Alumni President, I had a meeting with Valvano about the so-called scandal in which he gave over three hours to me and Alumni Exec. Bryce Younts to explain the situation from his viewpoint. During that discussion I complimented him on his great strength in taking “marginal” recruits with high character like Vinnie Del Negro and Tom Gugliatta and turning them into great ballplayers. I asked whether that was what he had been trying to do with great basketball recruits like Shackleford and Washburn and turn them into higher academic characters (a la Pygmalion). He laughed and said that might even be true.
    – As AD, Valvano began many of the changes in academics that became cornerstones of NC State’s Academic Support Program for Student Athletes which hold to this day. The program reports to the Provost and not to the AD, and for 25 years NC State has had a good academic/athletic record at which your buddy Art can only marvel. :>))
    Carry On !!”

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      As always, we all benefit from your “insider info”. Keep it coming please.
      .
      You highlight one of the other key factors in The Fall of Jimmy V. Trying to be both HBBC and AD as well as his burgeoning side-career as an in-demand spokesman / raconteur after the ’83 NC simply stretched him too thin to keep all the balls in the air. Not having a mentor/boss to keep him focused on his #1 priority as HBBC got him “out on a limb” where his “enemies” could get to him. A valuable lesson for anyone who has a rapid rise to fame / celebrity… and all the pitfalls that emerge.
      .
      That well-known Kennel Pride in “how NCSU does it” certainly contrasts well with UNCCH’s TGU … huh!

      • Doug Reply
        3 months ago

        Just checking. Was Carolina Blue Kool-Aid franchised or reformulated like New Coke by some enterprising NCSU chemical engineering PHD? The, “that can never happen at my school……. or happen again at my school” crowd seem as drunk on the same stuff as their brethren just west of Raleigh. Bless their hearts!!

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          I bet the same NCSU guy that came up with Sweet Acidopholous Milk was involved somehow.

  • NCSU68Grad Reply
    3 months ago

    Jeff Gravely said in his broadcast last night that the “Amphibious” quote was REAL and he was there and that Shack would actually use it himself and kid about it, later on. He first covered Shack when he started at WRAL and that Shack was a comic at heart who could hold his own with Jimmy V. V, per Tudor’s column, said that Valvano would often comment that it was impossible to LOVE Shack for more than two days….but that it was also equally hard to HATE him for more than two days…..

    Shack was often confused with Cozelle McQueen who said that the reason he came to NCSU was to get out of the South. Documented and confirmed….

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Jeff and I have already traded tweets on the subject. Jeff apparently has not gotten the memo from Jim G Sr about communicating with me. 🙂

  • RJ.Gsbo Reply
    3 months ago

    I bet “your buddy Art” has a different opinion on this than you do. What are the odds he would post it on his website like you often post his stuff on yours?

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      HAA! “My buddy Art (Chansky)” and I pretty much disagree on EVERYTHING from politics (YIKES) to whether or not Dean was “born in a manger”. I maintain he (Dean) was NOT “born in a manger”. As to “the odds” he will post this, if there is anything below “Zero” that’s it. His audience at WCHL/Chapelboro does not take kindly to any opinions that do not support long-held assumptions regardless of how baseless those assumptions might be.
      .
      Our many many differences aside, Art and I actually are “buddies” although he is not on my “if I ever need a kidney” list, nor am I on his.

  • Harley Reply
    3 months ago

    The underbelly is the Cleveland Steamer of college sports.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Harley my friend… I have absolutely no clue what that means. Should I refer it to NCSU’68 to decode?

      • NCSU68Grad Reply
        3 months ago

        Clint, my Navajo Code Talker, says Cleveland Steamer has more nuances or meanings than a BL Column.
        Original was a delicacy, as in steamed clams, served by the Iroquois Indians at their War Dances to give them virility for the night BEFORE the battle with the white man.
        Next was a new seafood delicacy served as the Cleveland World’s fair and falsely touted as Grover’s FAVORITE food (he never once set foot in Cleveland)
        Last urban lingo term was for a highly toxic bottom feeding Mollusk that had so much toxic metals and chemicals that it could almost be “recycled”. However, the Mafia would harvest them and use them as a no trace murder weapon. The GF or Hooker would serve them to their “Soon to be deceased” paramour as a “Delicacy” (think Organic Viagra as they have been known to have a “bluish” glow).

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          No clue. Harley is a very long time “BL Buddy” even pre-68Grad and usually not cryptic at all. Could he have been abducted and is sending a message for rescuing him ??

  • ELB.55 Reply
    3 months ago

    I love the amphibious quotation as I have used it myself with reference to Shack. I now have a new right shoulder and do not have the range of motion I once had. I now sometimes eat with my left hand, scratch with my left hand places I used to scratch with the right, etc. I have been asked why I use my left hand and arm when I am normally a right handed person. I reply that I am “amphibious” and most always reference Shack. …. Gets a laugh most times.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      If I’m not mistaken, you matriculated just south of Franklin Street. Reactions to “amphibious” are based 100% on institution of matriculation or chosen sports team of choice in the case of WalMarters. 🙂

    • MB.Balmer Reply
      3 months ago

      I remember a story about a State player saying how he missed being away from home.
      Someone said ” but you are from Kinston and it is only one hour away”. To which the
      Player said “yes but it is a long way when you don’t have a car”. Was that a Shack story
      Or someone else?

      • BobLee Reply
        3 months ago

        Never heard that one but the time/distance from State campus is about right… and it IS a true statement.

  • John Reply
    3 months ago

    Amphibious in Raleigh = Go to class in Chapel Hill.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I don’t doubt that more than 1-2 of Dean’s Boys were Shack’s equal in the “intellectual” category. But DES never bragged about those.

  • Jackie.82 Reply
    3 months ago

    This should be required reading for every Triangle area sports fan. You nailed it. “Fair & Balanced” as always.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Forwarding it on to the EVERYONE you know will help. 🙂
      .
      I can assure you not EVERYONE will agree with your POV on this one. “Ignorant bliss” can be a comfort especially with 30 year old assumptions.

  • John.UNC'75 Reply
    3 months ago

    Vintage BobLee Perspective. 🙂
    .
    Of all that may be written about this over the next few days, I bet few if any will connect the dots like you do. Surely a few rabid board monkeys will do what rabid board monkeys do, but you know that. EXCELLENT job BL.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Thanks. “The dots” seem pretty clear to me, always have on this issue. 🙂
      .
      The “just a pair of sneakers” crowd will go to their graves believing that. The St Dean The Wonderful crowd will join them in eternal confusion.

  • Babs.n.Derm Reply
    3 months ago

    This seems to happen to a lot of these players – sad.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Not sure what “a lot” could be but we do hear of “too many” coming to such an end.
      .
      In Shack’s case, when he left NCSU in 1988 everyone he knew / knew him “left too”. No clue if anyone connected with NCSU tried to reach out to him as he spiraled into trouble, or if he was a “good riddance” case. Usually where there is stability with a coach, the “family” unit is more active as a support unit. That was certainly the case during The Dean Era although even then there were guys that “got lost” or chose to “get lost”. Larry Miller being a prime example. …. and there’s a school of thought that at some point the school’s “in loco parentis” expires.

      • Doug Reply
        3 months ago

        Sometime in the mid-70″s a story circulated around Kinston about Jim Hudock and Larry Miller showing up to play a pick-up game at Fairfield with the regulars. Don’t know if it’s true but it circulated for a long time. I played a few games at Fairfield with Hudock from time to time and remember him as un-flashy but tough and serious even when playing pick-up ball. I know Larry played at UNC after Hudock, who was my dad’s dentist. He too died way too young but under different circumstances than Charles.You’re right. Never thought about it but you right. You never hear Larry Miller mentioned by the UNC PR machine. What happened to him?

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Larry Miller (UNC 64-68) was maybe THE #1 “give it to Larry and get out of his way” pressure BB I’ve ever known. UNC’s 67-68 team with Miller, Clark, Grubar, Bunting, Scott was An All-Timer. Got blown out by Lew Alcindor / UCLA in finals. In 66-67-68 he was a BMOC at UNC with all the perks imaginable with that title.
          .
          Larry at 6’4″ was a “tweener” in size but found short-term fame in the ABA with Anaheim Amigos. Had a 50 pt game as I recall. By his late 20s his BB career was over. He got into real estate in Va Beach area for awhile. Never really got over “being Larry Miller”. I believe he had a falling-out with Dean when his Life was coming apart. Developed some addictions (I think) and pretty much disappeared from Chapel Hill / UNC and “these parts”. Last I heard was 6-8 years ago he was back in Catasaqua PA where “you’re Larry Miller” still meant something to a few folks. I believe Duke’s Art Heyman had a sorta similar real-life adjustment issues.

  • Doug Reply
    3 months ago

    I did meet Charles inThessaloniki, Greece in the mid-90’s while he was playing for some European League team. He was in the hotel bar with another player. He didn’t speak unkindly of Kinston or Coach Jones as I recall. After a rough start in life he was ultimately dealt a pretty good hand and misplayed it badly. If anyone knows any teenaged basketball wonderkinds looking forward to the NBA life; Lamborghini’s & SUV’s with fat tires, and rims, 20,000 sq ft mansions, assorted bling, curvy girls, party life, endless adulation, and fame and fortune etc., please tell them about Charles. He died alone in a barely average rented duplex and driving a Nissan van on Rouse Road in freaking Kinston, NC.
    .
    Before anyone piles on about current or past NCSU or UNC athletic deeds, no matter your POV or team of choice. I trust what Coach Jones said about big time college athletics above any other opinion offered. And no matter what you say or try to defend your school, it’s worse now, not better than it was when Charles played. New schemes have been – are being- concocted and constantly updated. It’s like steroids in baseball. Nobody’s using that anymore because there’s something else being used that can’t be detected……Yet.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      I had MANY chats with Coach Jones in his final years about his players over four decades coaching at Kinston. His thoughtful comments about pre/post CRA were especially “deep”. Coaches who could not / would not “adjust” ended up miserable and bitter. He “adjusted” but always loved “us” (mid 60s) the BEST …. 51-1 with back-to-back State Champs will do that.

      • Doug Reply
        3 months ago

        Forgive me. What is CRA?

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          Civil Rights Act … late 60s. Integration… When Red Devils became Vikings et al.

  • Paul Coder Reply
    3 months ago

    I remember that in the late 1960’s, Pete Maravich couldn’t get admitted to State, despite his father being the coach. Mike Grosso was admitted to South Carolina but immediately declared academically ineligible by the ACC. Henry Bibby, from Franklinton, couldn’t get admitted to any of the Big Four schools. Getting into UCLA was no problem, though. What they had in common was failing to get at least an 800 score on their SATs.
    .
    The further away from the point shaving scandals of the ’50s and ’60s and the more income that was being generated, the more lax entrance requirements got.
    .
    Ironic that Valvano got sacked for being open about the academic deficiencies of some players, all the while the biggest academic/athletic fraud scam was just getting started. As you said, Dean spun some tales about academic capabilities.
    .
    The whole thing is now truly a “wag the dog” system. I remember when The Ohio State University President Gordon Gee was asked if football coach Jim Tressell’s job was in jeopardy for their Tattoogate scandal, Gee said that he hoped Tressell wouldn’t fire HIM. He was just being honest.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      As I recall The Grosso Case was what spurred McGuire to demand USC leave the ACC. I don’t know that V should get “credit” for “being open about” his players academic liabilities. IMO Jimmy V the Stand-up comedian torpedoed Jimmy V The BB Coach.

  • Old MacDonald Reply
    3 months ago

    I was on campus when Shack supposedly “said it.” I never heard it or saw it, and there are no audio or video recordings of it or even contemporaneous reports of it in the print media. Don’t you think such a “famous” line would have some sort of evidentiary trail?

    For sure it was part of Valvano’s ongoing stand-up act, which is how everyone heard of it.

    Also, not that it makes any difference, but Shack and Washburn only played together for one year iirc. Washburn left before the 1987-88 season.

    • BobLee Reply
      3 months ago

      Old McD, I’ve argued the “said it or not” countless times. It’s always a “hung jury”. IMO Jimmy had heard the line before and simply used Shack as his foil to get a laugh. Just one year together but forever linked.

      • Old MacDonald Reply
        3 months ago

        I totally agree … that line has been folklorically attached to numerous basketball players over the decades. It was one of Valvano’s closing jokes for years — voraciously eaten up by the UNC crowd who never needed encouragement to look down their noses …

        • BobLee Reply
          3 months ago

          I’m guessing “this one” will piss off BOTH camps of board monkeys. I can only be so lucky. 🙂 … what goes round comes round… hopefully.

          • Wolf Blizzard
            3 months ago

            No, BobLee, it’s the truth that always comes around and out one way or another. How long before a famous UNC PG succumbs to liver failure? Shack, Washburn, Peppers and Rasheed Wallace are all prime examples of BTCS corruption. Young men exploited for their athletic gifts and left holding an academic empty bag by millionaire coaches and “institutions of higher learning”.

            Another take on the Valvano “witch hunt” is that Saint Dean’s cronies could not stand the media attention garnered by the erudite Valvano. DES was a stereotypical Chapel Hill libtard with the media presence and personality of a wet paper bag.

          • BobLee
            3 months ago

            To the relative academic prowess of Dean’s guys versus V guys, I would not begin to judge that one; nor would I be surprised how that ranking might turn out. I’m still waiting for “the transcripts” to refute McCants’ claims.
            .
            I would take issue that Dean was a stereotypical anything. There has never been such an uber-Liberal head coach in NCAA history much less at UNCCH. Roy is whatever someone whispers in his ear to say he is. The FB coaches are “football coaches” period. The over-the-top liberal cesspool that UNCCH is now was not nearly so 25-30 years ago. Dean helped accelerate a lot of that.
            .
            Corruption is indeed rampant all cross BTCS and becoming more so by the day. Latest news from Baylor doesn’t even shock us any more.

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